I Don't Get It

I'm my previous article, Jonathan describes what he calls a “huge breakthrough” from doing the Roll-Out exercises (RO). He believes he was prompted or guided to change his embouchure set-up in the right direction by something he experienced while practicing RO. Jonathan's experience is consistent with stories Jeff Smiley has shared about trumpet players whose embouchures were transformed through practicing only the RO.

I understand that RO can and does improve embouchures, often in dramatic ways. What I don't get is HOW it is done. The mechanics of this process escape my reasoning ability. I can only postulate that the trumpet players Jeff talks about, like Jonathan, were missing some weighty element on one end of the range of motion spectrum. Adding RO provided the needed weight that brought “balance” to their chops. It's a nice & tidy sounding theorem, but what does this mean in a mechanical nuts & bolts way inside the mouthpiece? I don't know.

When I started BE, I experienced a "huge breakthrough" directly from the RI exercises. It was easy for me to see, feel and understand the connection: roll in, play higher, clearer & stronger on a firmer part of the lips! Tadah! But for me, exactly HOW Roll Out exercises can produce similar and dramatic improvements remains the mysterious part of BE. Seeing results such as JP and others have had with RO proves to me that BE is more than just rolling in for high and out for low. The opposing forces of RO and RI as well as other maneuvers in BE merge to produce something greater than these do when used singularly.

I’m glad I don’t have to understand the inner workings of the embouchure to help myself and other horn players improve. It’s satisfying enough to know I can help others by simply encouraging them to do the exercises. That's easy. Like Doug Wagner writes: "Spend the time, do the exercises. It works."

Below are responses and insights to what I've written above:

I don't get it.--oh, yes you do!

This does make sense. I agree with your postulate. I would take it even farther by speculating that BE allows one to search for one's best embouchure in ways that mysteriously could involve more than just RI and RO adjustments: for examples, it could allow one to feel for one's best inner-cup embouchure that Farkas writes about; it could allow one to adjust the vertical alignment of the lips; it could allow one to discover that embouchure position could be more dynamic and changeable than we usually think of it as being-- I know that I don't always play with the exact same embouchure, that through BE practice, my lip positions are more versatile to move around a bit similar to an experienced baseball pitcher being able to change his body and arm positions in throwing pitches (I love the comparison of a horn player hitting a note to a baseball pitcher throwing a strike!). Why would I move my lip positions around? Well, for us older folks and those on medications, I find that my lips aren't the same everyday; indeed, my lips change during a single playing session, and I need to make slight embouchure adjustments to accommodate lip swelling and other idiosyncratic lip changes. As a youth I never seemed to need to deal with changeable lips, or, at least, I wasn't aware of it at the time.

If we aren't crazy to decide to play the horn, we eventually become crazy as we learn to play the horn.

Larry
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Understanding how RO exercises can make an embouchure work better, even on high register, can be a challenge. I got myself the most benefits from RO practicing, but I am not sure I really understand how it works. I have clues but may not get the whole picture. Three months after starting on BE, I was able to play up to high F when practicing RO#4. I had a big week of rehearsal and concert, very tiring, after which I lost this ability to play higher than High C. After a few months of patience, it is back, but with a slightly bigger proportion of RI, and a much better connection with the rest of my range. It is hard to catch for our analytical minds, but even my high F on the horn and even my high F on the trumpet show some elements of RO.

I think it is hard to understand mainly because the perfect RO set up is not that easy to find, and the RO feel is harder to get on the horn with our narrow rim mouthpieces. I really feel RO much better on the trumpet with a more cushioned rim. Also, on the horn, we tend to associate RO with soft lips, and relaxed muscles, whereas I believe RO relies more on firm lips than we would believe.
Guillaume
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This seems to directly contradict the understanding you showed when pointing out that RI is not just for high notes, and RO is not just for low notes. ...it sounds remarkably contradictory to the strongly-worded essay you posted on why RI does not equal high notes. Maybe its just me, but I have a difficult time getting that contradiction out of my mind.

The actual shape of the lips dictate how much RI or RO is required. For some players, with a particular lip architecture, both lips rolled out could actually facilitate high notes, as they have a double fold of inner lip tissue which acts as the vibrating surface. Other players actually use the tongue in place of the lower lip with great success. Both conditions are rare, however.

Jeff Smiley
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Hi Valerie - one of the great things about BE is that it does not purport to be a one size fits all thing. It's ok to roll out more than roll in...if that works for you...and vice versa. One of the problems some folks have with previous attempts at technical codification is that their successes were sometimes devalued because they were 'doing it wrong'.
It's kind of like what Duke Ellington said about music - 'there are two kinds of music...good music and bad music.'
We could go on for a LOOOOONG time about how today's success can often be breeding tomorrow's failure - short cuts and dead ends and all that. But in the end, our audience does not care 'how' we do what we do...they simply prefer excellence over mediocrity...music over technical display.
The horn and brass in general are difficult...but we often make it more difficult than it is by our desire to know - to the nth degree - every why, where, and how.
Sandra Clark, Toledo Symphony Orchestra
Back to home.

"Huge Breakthrough" with Roll-Out Exercises

This made my day! Read what Jonathan just wrote to me.....

So here is the latest in my saga...I have recently changed my embouchure setting to put more top lip in the mouthpiece and setting the rim on the bottom lip; it is completely different than my old setting which was apparently all wrong, because I have seen an almost overnight improvement in endurance, accuracy, mobility and slurs. It has also allowed me to play fff in the mid and low registers and add some edge when needed. I cannot play the high register with this setting (yet). I believe that this new setting is a result of the RO exercises, and it is probably what most other players are using, but since it is hard for them to describe what they are doing, and you can't see inside the mouthpiece while they're playing, I never realized that I was using a setting that was inefficient and holding back my progress. I feel like this is a huge breakthrough for me!

I keep forgetting that BE does not prescribe an "ideal" setting, just what works, and BE helps you find that.... apparently BE has done that for me; I NEVER would have even thought of playing with this new setting. So, this new setting is like riding a stallion; it has raw power and grace, I just have harness it. My practice now is aimed at getting the "feel" of each note with the new setting...

I KNEW that there was something fundamental that I was doing wrong, the symptoms told me that... unfortunately no one but you and BE steered me in the right direction. I got the classic list of solutions from teachers, friends and pros, none of which (important as they each are) got to the heart of the problem.... you need more air, you're too tight, too loose, too puckered, too smiley, too much pressure, not enough pressure, too much practice, not enough practice, not enough support, wrong mouthpiece, wrong horn, it's mental.... believe me it was MAKING me mental!!! Not any more.... I'm loving my practices.... thanks Val, you're the best!

Jonathan

Thanks, but Jeff Smiley deserves the credit! All I did was provide the book and a little encouragement to stick with the program.

Valerie

Back home.

Forget the Chin!

“I don’t think BE will work for me, I play with a flat chin.”
“Andrew Joy plays with a flat chin, so that's not really BE.”

I've read statements like this. They are based upon a misconception that BE is an embouchure method that forbids a flat chin and requires a bunched chin. BE is not a particular embouchure (and thus there is no "BE embouchure") but rather a set of exercises that guides the individual horn player to develop an efficient embouchure regardless of how it visually appears.

Some BE'ers, including Andrew Joy* and Sandra Clark, play with flat chins. Some BE'ers, like myself, played with flat chins when they began studying BE and have seen gradual changes in chin shape. Some BE'ers have never played with a flat chin. However, anyone who regularly practices one or more of the BE exercises is legitimately developing their own personal BE embouchure regardless of their chin appearance.

The flat chin is neither a requirement nor a taboo in BE. A bunched chin embouchure is not the goal of the BE development system, however it is sometimes the result. The goal of BE is an efficient embouchure, not a specific chin shape.

Many believe Jeff Smiley is "against” the flat chin. He is not. Jeff Smiley is against requiring a flat chin. Here’s a related experience Guillaume, recently shared:

Yesterday was high F day! I went to my favorite horn shop in Paris after work and tried a couple of mouthpieces, mainly for fun... I ended up playing high F after high F on one of my regular mouthpieces (Holton Farkas MC). Even the Farkas SC gave lesser results. I just started higher (i.e. in the staff) than I usually do when I try to play above high C (usually start on pedal notes). I just hope I can have this back in the next days and weeks... And as strange as it can be, my lips were not fully RI [rolled in] ... I still had a significant bit of RO [rolled out] and almost no bunching chin... I am a bit puzzled by this I have to say...Those are my last experiments… And after one year on BE, I guess I can be proud of the way I already travelled... thank you for your advice and Jeff for writing the book.

A few days later Guillaume followed up with this:

It's still there. It is just another embouchure set up I can use for extreme high wire range or heavy 1st horn parts, I can more or less make it work from middle C. My regular RO [rolled out] set up gives me a fuller tone, but "only" up to high D (E flat when lucky). I started to see how I can transition between both... it seems doable. The real fun is to see how my chin can move freely, even on high F, up, down... whatever.

Guillaume summarizes the BE chin issue with one word: “whatever."
*Since this posting, I've learned that Andrew's flat chin days are long over. Please see the posting on June 25, 2010 to read Andrew's response.

Doug Wagner's Testimonial: It works!

I am filled with admiration of Jeff Smiley for taking on the whole academic establishment with his assertion of BE. What a great statement of certitude! Here - Do this. It works. No apology, no hedging. It works. Spend the time, do the exercises. It works. So I bought the book, taking on faith his certainty. Guess what? It works.

Doug Wagner

Thanks for sharing, Doug.

Transition Period: The Darkness Before Dawn

Valerie,

BE is going very well for me; I can't exactly describe it, but there is a more positive "feel" to my embouchure, the tone is more substantial.... particular notes that were always thin, stuffy, or unresponsive are sounding much better; arpeggios, both slurred and tongued are much improved, and the endurance and range is improving.
Jonathan

Jonathan has corresponded with me regularly since he began studying BE five months ago. He was so frustrated with his lack of progress a couple months ago, he put his horn down for a few weeks to take a break from the intensity of the situation. He was discouraged having failed with various other embouchure methods in the past and seemed tempted to stop studying BE.

I call a few BE students "fast responders" because improvements come so quickly it seems almost instant. But for the vast majority, it takes months to a year or more consistently practicing the exercises before they realize significant improvements.

The BE path is usually one of gradual and steady improvement, but for some it's not. I've gotten feedback from a few who have experienced a significant period of difficulty as their embouchures began to change.

One particular BE student after three months of seeing few visible signs of progress labeled herself as a "slow learner." While her overall tone continually improved from the very beginning of her BE study, she was frustrated that her endurance and range seemed "stuck" in the same spots they were prior to BE. She never-the-less persisted her BE studies and at the end of month five joyfully reported a breakthrough in both endurance and range.

The transition period challenges the BE student's will to continue. Those who weather the storm and persist find the dawning of a brighter day.

Decisions, Decisions....

Several great questions came from a Doug, a three month BE’er:

"Is there some point in time or development where you're supposed to start moving from RO to RI as you ascend?"

Yes, as soon as you learn the RO and RI exercises you should begin practicing the Advanced Slip slurs to start the process of bridging the gap. The goal is a "continuous flex" as we ascend with no breaks. However, this goal comes from a trumpet player. Trumpet players strive for a no break, no reset embouchure and I believe they can achieve it more readily than a horn player. After all, when compared to horn players, trumpet players only have a mid and high range, no low register. Many horn players have a break, or a place where they must switch or shift their embouchure setting to accommodate the requirements of the range. Doug continues,

"I've been working on bringing the playable notes in RO up as high as I can. I think this is an area where I could use some face to face instruction."

I'd love to work with Doug face to face, but I'm not sure I have the answers he seeks.

At this point he has several directions he might move towards:
(1) switching from RO to RI seamlessly somewhere along the way up and vice versa
(2) developing some sort of RO-RI hybride to play the full range
(3) developing a RO that plays the full range
(4) developing a RI that plays the whole range
(5) developing a RI and a RO that significantly overlap to avoid resetting within phrases
and/or....
(6) doing something completely different that I can't even imagine!

The Advanced Lip Slurs are designed to extend the range upwards and downwards step by step so the player can use techniques learned in RO and RI exercises to discover movements to eliminate or minimize awkward "breaks." It's impossible to say where any one player will shift from RO to RI or if they will need to. It will depend on personal architecture as well as the embouchure they start with, playing needs, personal choices, practice habits, etc.

BE students are encouraged to experiment with the extremes of the exercises to help them discover lips shapes and movements to develop more efficient "chops." BE is not like other methods that prescribe mouthpiece placement and exactly what one must do with the lips, the tongue, the teeth, for regular playing. Because BE is based upon universal principles, BE exercises compliment other methods so the BE student is free to explore and investigate other methods. One never knows where an important piece of the embouchure puzzle will be found.

Below is an example of a bold move a fellow horn player on BE recently made to tackle a very challenging situation.

"I have been flirting with BE for over a year with few results--I still can't get a decent RI. When I work on BE, my regular playing suffers, particularly high and soft playing, though TOL has helped that. The problem with my accustomed embouchure is that it is "conditional," and I don't have good endurance. However, a week ago I was faced with a grueling concert last night preceded by a rehearsal. First horn on Gershwin's Cuban Overture, Rhapsody in Blue, and American in Paris, plus I'm rehearsing Tchaikovsky's fifth, which is a lot of high playing, and I'm trying out for the solo. So, a week ago I did what you shouldn't do: I switched to the smaller mouthpiece I use with BE and changed my embouchure to lips together and air pockets behind both lips. Result: I got through the rehearsal and concert with no endurance problems. I could have played another concert. I had more clams than usual--usually when the air pockets collapsed, but the high notes sailed out, as well as the low. Today my chops feel fine.

"This is not a 'BE embouchure,' if there is such a thing, but certainly was influenced by the BE practice.

"It looks like I'm committed. I would expect that BE practice will only help with this setup. Sometimes desperation helps."

I have to disagree that Henry did what he "shouldn't do." I also disagree with his conclusion that this isn't a "BE embouchure." If it worked, it’s correct. And if BE exercises influenced it, then it is a "BE embouchure," no matter what it looks like!

I’ve encouraged Henry to work on this set up & see what he can accomplish with it. If he can make it perform cleanly with a nice tone, why not use it? He can call it his personal BE embouchure! :o)

Through my experiences with BE, I’ve had the privilege of getting well acquainted with some super good horn players. Some use a rolled in setting for the high range and gradually transfer to a more rolled out setting for the low. A few use a rolled in setting for all of their playing, even the low register. Others use a hybride of both roll in and roll out in varying degrees depending on the range. It varies from player to player.

If anyone is dissatisfied with their embouchure, it is important to actively explore as many avenues as possible, even things that seem strange or radical, in our pursuit of one's personal "balanced embouchure."

Knowing, Understanding vs Feeling

I learn so much from my BE horn friends. Read this interesting comment from Gill [italics added].

Dear Val,

Yesterday evening, I went through a nice experience. I was trying a couple of BE things on my trumpet, without any real other aim but having some fun after my day at work, and I suddenly found a lip set up (I'd say, 90% of RO and 10% of RI) which allowed me to hit high Cs one after the other with absolutely no mpc pressure while doing RO#4. I knew from my previous experiments on the horn that I was more of a RO type of player, but up till now it was another kind of RO feeling... Yesterday I felt for the first time the foreward - inward motion of RO up to high C and the
repetition made me feel what happens on low C that I need to drag up so I can climb up there easily.

"Muscles moving toward the mpc while ascending." I surely knew and understood what it was about and I already had a kind of feeling before. But now it's a whole new feeling associated with it. There a huge difference between understanding the principals of embouchure development and feeling them.

You can understand the concepts, but it will be nothing until you feel them in practice, and the path is quite well hidden.

...the one solution: "practice", and the first rule: "BE patient!"

Take care.
Gill

If any of you have a trumpet or another brass instrument, it can be beneficial to experiment on it. Experimenting on an unfamiliar brass instrument removes the elements that are unique to the instrument and gives you the opportunity to isolate and explore the universal principals that BE is based upon. After I'd studied BE on horn for a year or more, I began to experiment with BE on trumpet. I discovered a whole new, extreme technique for double pedals with the lower lip fully outside the mouthpiece. I had read the book, knew & understood the logic behind it, but, like Gill, I hadn't felt it yet. Experiencing the new technique on trumpet introduced me to a whole new feeling that wasn't available to me on horn alone. I was able to transfer the techniques to horn and expand on my range of motion that is so beneficial to development.

Valerie Wells